Lesnar vs. Mir

[PaulNJ21]

Who will win on Saturday at UFC 100 between Brock Lesnar and Frank Mir?



Paul

 

[LQJT86C]

http://fwmoneyshot.blogspot.com/

Scroll down for my commentary on Lesnar/Mir.

 

[robishott]

Brock's going to win. He practically GAVE Mir the win last time.

 

[LQJT86C]

Brock's going to win. He practically GAVE Mir the win last time.

Then why are you so confident in somebody who is "giving away" wins in the first place? If he's that good, should it really be that easy to steal a win from him? Who is to say Mir didn't "almost give" Brock the win by carelessly trading punches with him?

I give Brock a good shot at winning, but he's still too green on the ground. Maybe you can hide flaws against a 42 year old man who was on a 15 month layoff, but it's not gonna work on Mir. He beat him once, he'll beat him again.

 

[robishott]

Then why are you so confident in somebody who is "giving away" wins in the first place? If he's that good, should it really be that easy to steal a win from him? Who is to say Mir didn't "almost give" Brock the win by carelessly trading punches with him?

I give Brock a good shot at winning, but he's still too green on the ground. Maybe you can hide flaws against a 42 year old man who was on a 15 month layoff, but it's not gonna work on Mir. He beat him once, he'll beat him again.

yep...

Apparently Mir forgot that Brock was the best wrestler in the UFC. What Brock did after the fight was great. Sure, it was disrespectful, and sure, he probably lost fans, but who cares? It was entertaining. I just hope next time he fight Paul Heyman walks him to the ring.

 

[LQJT86C]

yep...

Apparently Mir forgot that Brock was the best wrestler in the UFC. What Brock did after the fight was great. Sure, it was disrespectful, and sure, he probably lost fans, but who cares? It was entertaining. I just hope next time he fight Paul Heyman walks him to the ring.

Best wrestler in the UFC? Brock has a great wrestling pedigree, but he's hardly the best wrestler. GSP takes that easy; Rashad and Koscheck are up there too. Henderson is a MUCH better wrestler than Brock, and even Shane Carwin (heavyweight) is arguably as good or a better wrestler than Brock. Even 220 pound Randy Couture was able to take Brock down, and it's not like he was taking Mir down easy. In fact, Mir put himself on his back in the sequence that led to the fight's end.

I always thought Brock had a great chance of winning, but Mir is a more well rounded fighter. Brock laid 300 pounds on Mir and won with short powerful punches. Pound for pound, he'd get killed. For the improvements he showed in the way of ground control, he was getting schooled standing. I'd even bet on Mir in a rubber match.

What Brock did after the match ended was a disgrace. He seems to forget he isn't in the WWE anymore. It was cheesy and stupid; he basically cut a heel promo. There's a reason nobody watches wrestling anymore, and why people flock to MMA. Brock isn't popular because he cuts a great promo; nobody cares about that. He's popular because people like to see big giant dumbasses wail on people. Mir exposed serious flaws in Brock's standup, and eventually he WILL fight someone who is strong enough to be mobile on his back against him. I thought Mir could have been a bit more active on the ground, but I think he underestimated how powerful those short little shots Brock was throwing would be.

The fight actually went the opposite of how I thought it'd be. I thought Brock would rock him standing up, and Mir would win it on the ground. If Mir just kept his distance and boxed him, he would have beaten Brock.

If Brock really wants to be entertaining, he should learn to do more than lay on people. MMA fans aren't wrestling fans; nobody cares about the promo. That **** might have worked for the crossover WWE fans that tuned in for the first time last night, but MMA fans want to see exciting fights. Mir brought it, Lesnar laid on him, and that's why people booed when Brock won. They were cheering Brock going in, but he lost the crowd long before he flipped them off. Even Dana White had to scold him after the fight by telling him: "Hey, moron, this isn't pro wrestling. You can't tell our sponsors to **** off, we actually need them. Now go apologize you big idiot."

I was hoping Fedor Emelianenko would run in Wrestlemania 9 style and KO Brock, LOL. Oh well, I would have been happy for Brock if he didn't act like such a sc*mbag after the fight. You just beat a great former champion, shake his hand like a man.

 

[DBrunkGXW]

Best wrestler in the UFC? Brock has a great wrestling pedigree, but he's hardly the best wrestler. GSP takes that easy; Rashad and Koscheck are up there too. Henderson is a MUCH better wrestler than Brock, and even Shane Carwin (heavyweight) is arguably as good or a better wrestler than Brock. Even 220 pound Randy Couture was able to take Brock down, and it's not like he was taking Mir down easy. In fact, Mir put himself on his back in the sequence that led to the fight's end.

I always thought Brock had a great chance of winning, but Mir is a more well rounded fighter. Brock laid 300 pounds on Mir and won with short powerful punches. Pound for pound, he'd get killed. For the improvements he showed in the way of ground control, he was getting schooled standing. I'd even bet on Mir in a rubber match.

What Brock did after the match ended was a disgrace. He seems to forget he isn't in the WWE anymore. It was cheesy and stupid; he basically cut a heel promo. There's a reason nobody watches wrestling anymore, and why people flock to MMA. Brock isn't popular because he cuts a great promo; nobody cares about that. He's popular because people like to see big giant dumbasses wail on people. Mir exposed serious flaws in Brock's standup, and eventually he WILL fight someone who is strong enough to be mobile on his back against him. I thought Mir could have been a bit more active on the ground, but I think he underestimated how powerful those short little shots Brock was throwing would be.

The fight actually went the opposite of how I thought it'd be. I thought Brock would rock him standing up, and Mir would win it on the ground. If Mir just kept his distance and boxed him, he would have beaten Brock.

If Brock really wants to be entertaining, he should learn to do more than lay on people. MMA fans aren't wrestling fans; nobody cares about the promo. That **** might have worked for the crossover WWE fans that tuned in for the first time last night, but MMA fans want to see exciting fights. Mir brought it, Lesnar laid on him, and that's why people booed when Brock won. They were cheering Brock going in, but he lost the crowd long before he flipped them off. Even Dana White had to scold him after the fight by telling him: "Hey, moron, this isn't pro wrestling. You can't tell our sponsors to **** off, we actually need them. Now go apologize you big idiot."

I was hoping Fedor Emelianenko would run in Wrestlemania 9 style and KO Brock, LOL. Oh well, I would have been happy for Brock if he didn't act like such a sc*mbag after the fight. You just beat a great former champion, shake his hand like a man.

YEAH!!!

And if the Patriots had only scored a FEW more touchdowns in the super bowl, they would've TOTALLY been undefeated that year!!

And if Buckner hadn't let that ball roll through his legs....DAG NABBIT!!!!

And if someone had only clipped Lee Harvey's knee before he got that shot off!!! (That should be enough to get Stanton going)

Bottom line is he whooped that ass, sir. Unless they added a column for 'except that he woulda lost IF', I think that counted as a win.

I'd also like to point out that playing that heel role, and all the back and forth trash talking before the fight likely broke PPV records for UFC.

Then again, I love the heels, MMA, UFC or whatever. Everyone loves to boo the bad guy. And they'll keep ponying up the dough if they hate him so they can be there to see when he gets taken down a notch.

SO - I love it. Then again, I've always played the heel.

 

[LQJT86C]

I wasn't trying to argue Lesnar didn't deserve the win (ya know, like all the Lesnar fans were saying about Mir's win last time), but merely pointing out that Mir wasn't obliterated and Lesnar is indeed human. The fight exposed major holes in his standup abilities. Nothing wrong with breaking down why a fighter lost.

As for the heel stuff, the PPV records were broken before the first match happened. I'm all for the pre-fight hype, the trash talk, but what he did after the fight doesn't belong in MMA and does nothing to increase buyrates. Dan Hardy is one of my favorite fighters because of all the trash he talks prior to fights, but when the fight is over he always shakes hands and gives proper respect to his opponent. My view is that no matter what's said or done before or during a fight, all that sh*t is over when the fight ends. Or like my hockey coach used to say, "You never take the fight outside of the rink." Insulting the company's biggest sponsor on air is not good for business, and flipping off the fans is just plain gimmicky.

Entertainment value is defined differently in MMA than in Wrestling. GSP had as much to do with the buyrates as Lesnar, and wound up getting a higher payout (after his win bonus) than did Lesnar. Yet you don't see him out there flipping off fans, getting in his opponent's face after he beat him, etc. Bottom line, you have to put on good performances, and Lesnar didn't do that. He was boring. He flipped off the fans because they were booing him, and they did so because he laid on his opponent and jabbed him to victory. Mir won the crowd by the end of the fight because he showed guts and fought a big man without restraint. Of course, you need to win in the end...but my point is, if Lesnar really wants to be "over" and make money, he needs to do more than lay on people and cut cheesy wrestling promos.

I mean, once he gets beaten and the mystique fades, then what? No heel promo is going to make him look any better. Fans will pay out the nose to see him right now because he's still got that aura about him, but that's gonna fade quick if he starts fighting opponents who are afraid of him and get laid on for 25 mins. Tim Sylvia was another freak of nature former champion who people HATED by the end of his reign because he was boring and did nothing but disrespect people in interviews and came off like a dumbass in general.

MMA isn't WWE, and entertainment value is defined differently by both organizations' fans. The legit tough-guy aura only worked to an extent for Ken Shamrock in WWE, and the cheesy pro wrestling heel bullsh*t is gonna fade real fast for Brock in UFC. With the amateur striking he displayed in the fight, there are about 4 or 5 guys nowhere near the marquee level of Lesnar who could potentially lay him out, and that's not good for Brock. That's why Dana White is now renewing his chase for Fedor Emelianenko because he needs a legit marquee fighter to beat Lesnar.

Shane Carwin's up next for a title shot, and with the type of raw power, size, and wrestling ability he has, I'm not so sure the "I'm bigger than you and I will Donkey Kong the sh*t outta you" gameplan is going to work again. If Lesnar wins, no big deal. If he loses? Headline: "Brock exposed! Lesnar beaten by a complete NOBODY!"

 

[The Great Eye]

YEAH!!!

And if Buckner hadn't let that ball roll through his legs....DAG NABBIT!!!!

And if someone had only clipped Lee Harvey's knee before he got that shot off!!! (That should be enough to get Stanton going)

The Buckner error is a joke, that game was tied thanks to Stanley's wild pitch, the Sox bullpen was a disgrace in 86 and did them in. If Buckner makes that play, we go another inning or two before they get shelled and lose the game. The Buckner error was just the iconic moment that people remember.

If we're going by what the government said, Oswald was kneeling, surrounded by boxes he'd build (The so called "Sniper's Nest") and would have been pretty much unseen by anyone. About the only way he could have been stopped from killing JFK would be had someone confronted him about the contents of the package he brought with him to work. He claimed it was curtain rods for his apartment, and not a disassembled rifle he was planning to use to kill the President.

So there, you got your rise out of me...Need anymore JFK assassination info? Or is the next comment gonna be a dig on Shirley Manson?

 

[robishott]

I wasn't trying to argue Lesnar didn't deserve the win (ya know, like all the Lesnar fans were saying about Mir's win last time), but merely pointing out that Mir wasn't obliterated and Lesnar is indeed human. The fight exposed major holes in his standup abilities. Nothing wrong with breaking down why a fighter lost.

As for the heel stuff, the PPV records were broken before the first match happened. I'm all for the pre-fight hype, the trash talk, but what he did after the fight doesn't belong in MMA and does nothing to increase buyrates. Dan Hardy is one of my favorite fighters because of all the trash he talks prior to fights, but when the fight is over he always shakes hands and gives proper respect to his opponent. My view is that no matter what's said or done before or during a fight, all that sh*t is over when the fight ends. Or like my hockey coach used to say, "You never take the fight outside of the rink." Insulting the company's biggest sponsor on air is not good for business, and flipping off the fans is just plain gimmicky.

Entertainment value is defined differently in MMA than in Wrestling. GSP had as much to do with the buyrates as Lesnar, and wound up getting a higher payout (after his win bonus) than did Lesnar. Yet you don't see him out there flipping off fans, getting in his opponent's face after he beat him, etc. Bottom line, you have to put on good performances, and Lesnar didn't do that. He was boring. He flipped off the fans because they were booing him, and they did so because he laid on his opponent and jabbed him to victory. Mir won the crowd by the end of the fight because he showed guts and fought a big man without restraint. Of course, you need to win in the end...but my point is, if Lesnar really wants to be "over" and make money, he needs to do more than lay on people and cut cheesy wrestling promos.

I mean, once he gets beaten and the mystique fades, then what? No heel promo is going to make him look any better. Fans will pay out the nose to see him right now because he's still got that aura about him, but that's gonna fade quick if he starts fighting opponents who are afraid of him and get laid on for 25 mins. Tim Sylvia was another freak of nature former champion who people HATED by the end of his reign because he was boring and did nothing but disrespect people in interviews and came off like a dumbass in general.

MMA isn't WWE, and entertainment value is defined differently by both organizations' fans. The legit tough-guy aura only worked to an extent for Ken Shamrock in WWE, and the cheesy pro wrestling heel bullsh*t is gonna fade real fast for Brock in UFC. With the amateur striking he displayed in the fight, there are about 4 or 5 guys nowhere near the marquee level of Lesnar who could potentially lay him out, and that's not good for Brock. That's why Dana White is now renewing his chase for Fedor Emelianenko because he needs a legit marquee fighter to beat Lesnar.

Shane Carwin's up next for a title shot, and with the type of raw power, size, and wrestling ability he has, I'm not so sure the "I'm bigger than you and I will Donkey Kong the sh*t outta you" gameplan is going to work again. If Lesnar wins, no big deal. If he loses? Headline: "Brock exposed! Lesnar beaten by a complete NOBODY!"

Bottom line is, you answered you own argument. Yes, UFC isn't WWE, and it's a real sport. So no matter what Brock does, as long as he keeps winning, he's going ot be at the top. Entertainment value has nothing to do with it.

And I HIGHLY doubt GSP, as talented as he is, sold as many PPV's as Brock/Mir. Most people don't even know who Thiago is.

 

[DBrunkGXW]

I wasn't trying to argue Lesnar didn't deserve the win (ya know, like all the Lesnar fans were saying about Mir's win last time), but merely pointing out that Mir wasn't obliterated and Lesnar is indeed human. The fight exposed major holes in his standup abilities. Nothing wrong with breaking down why a fighter lost.

As for the heel stuff, the PPV records were broken before the first match happened. I'm all for the pre-fight hype, the trash talk, but what he did after the fight doesn't belong in MMA and does nothing to increase buyrates. Dan Hardy is one of my favorite fighters because of all the trash he talks prior to fights, but when the fight is over he always shakes hands and gives proper respect to his opponent. My view is that no matter what's said or done before or during a fight, all that sh*t is over when the fight ends. Or like my hockey coach used to say, "You never take the fight outside of the rink." Insulting the company's biggest sponsor on air is not good for business, and flipping off the fans is just plain gimmicky.

Entertainment value is defined differently in MMA than in Wrestling. GSP had as much to do with the buyrates as Lesnar, and wound up getting a higher payout (after his win bonus) than did Lesnar. Yet you don't see him out there flipping off fans, getting in his opponent's face after he beat him, etc. Bottom line, you have to put on good performances, and Lesnar didn't do that. He was boring. He flipped off the fans because they were booing him, and they did so because he laid on his opponent and jabbed him to victory. Mir won the crowd by the end of the fight because he showed guts and fought a big man without restraint. Of course, you need to win in the end...but my point is, if Lesnar really wants to be "over" and make money, he needs to do more than lay on people and cut cheesy wrestling promos.

I mean, once he gets beaten and the mystique fades, then what? No heel promo is going to make him look any better. Fans will pay out the nose to see him right now because he's still got that aura about him, but that's gonna fade quick if he starts fighting opponents who are afraid of him and get laid on for 25 mins. Tim Sylvia was another freak of nature former champion who people HATED by the end of his reign because he was boring and did nothing but disrespect people in interviews and came off like a dumbass in general.

MMA isn't WWE, and entertainment value is defined differently by both organizations' fans. The legit tough-guy aura only worked to an extent for Ken Shamrock in WWE, and the cheesy pro wrestling heel bullsh*t is gonna fade real fast for Brock in UFC. With the amateur striking he displayed in the fight, there are about 4 or 5 guys nowhere near the marquee level of Lesnar who could potentially lay him out, and that's not good for Brock. That's why Dana White is now renewing his chase for Fedor Emelianenko because he needs a legit marquee fighter to beat Lesnar.

Shane Carwin's up next for a title shot, and with the type of raw power, size, and wrestling ability he has, I'm not so sure the "I'm bigger than you and I will Donkey Kong the sh*t outta you" gameplan is going to work again. If Lesnar wins, no big deal. If he loses? Headline: "Brock exposed! Lesnar beaten by a complete NOBODY!"

Dude, I don't even know. I only read like two sentences of that. LOL

I kinda just wanted to see how much you'd write.

So there, you got your rise out of me...Need anymore JFK assassination info? Or is the next comment gonna be a dig on Shirley Manson?

What?? That dyke???

(in other words, yes)

 

[The Great Eye]

What?? That dyke???

(in other words, yes)

I know so many female fans that want her to be a dyke or bi, so really, that insult would be kind of a ray of hope for them.

 

[LQJT86C]

Bottom line is, you answered you own argument. Yes, UFC isn't WWE, and it's a real sport. So no matter what Brock does, as long as he keeps winning, he's going ot be at the top. Entertainment value has nothing to do with it.

And I HIGHLY doubt GSP, as talented as he is, sold as many PPV's as Brock/Mir. Most people don't even know who Thiago is.

That was never in question. You brought up how Brock is "the best wrestler in MMA" and how awesome it was that he cut a WWE-esque promo. Brock is a phenomenal talent, I've always said that and do believe he could reign atop the HW division for a while...but I don't think that time is now. Not everyone is gonna fight him the same way, and somebody is going to expose the major flaws in his game that exist for anyone as green as he is. He just better hope it's not some nobody like Shane Carwin. Brock's got the wrestling, size, and power...but I question his striking and overall situational awareness. Did you see him completely turn his back to Mir at one point in the fight? HORRIBLE move. He can get away with it because he's so big, but it's still the mark of somebody who is still way too rough around the edges.

As for the GSP comment, you do realize he is the biggest draw in UFC history, right? At least in terms of PPV buys/tickets sold for events that he has headlined/co-headlined, I think it's something like 5 or 5.5 million total buys. The card featured simulataneously the most popular fighter in Japan (Akiyama), Britain (Bisping), U.S. (Brock), and Canada (GSP). Every promotional for the fight featured all three main event matches, never one or the other. Six fighters helped to sell the sh*t outta the card, plus the fact that it was "100" it wasn't all Brock.

GSP/Penn and GSP/Serra did unbelievable numbers. Do most people know who Serra is? Hell, do most people even know who Frank Mir is? GSP is practically worshipped in Canada (a huge MMA market), and I guarantee you GSP is more well known internationally than Brock Lesnar is. Not to mention, GSP took home just as much money for his fight as Brock did at UFC 100. I am guaranteeing you right now that as soon as Brock loses, his draw will start sinking. GSP could lose his next 3 matches and still be one of the UFC's top draws. Brock needs the UFC much more than UFC needs Brock. UFC 100 was selling with or without him. He helped it, but not by much. If and when UFC signs Fedor Emelianenko, watch his salary dwarf Brock's.

This may come as a surprise to WWE fans that just started paying attention last week, but MMA was very popular before Brock Lesnar showed up, and there are plenty of other fighters who are well known and at least a handful who could draw as good or better than Brock (Randy, GSP, BJ Penn, Urijah Faber, Fedor [if he came to UFC]).


And yes Brunk, I figured you were just trying to rile me lol.

 

[Nova]

I'm voting for Frank Mir.