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GARTHIsTheLaw

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Evolution Schmevolution

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jul-23-03 AT 05:18 PM (EST)]Saying that Triple-H's lame-ass character will eventually change is not a good justification for its present stupidity. Essentially nothing has changed about his gimmick for years, except that he was briefly a face. You mention that The Undertaker has made a lot of changes too, but he's been around for almost twice as long as Triple-H and usually remains fairly interesting when he's a main-eventer (except for his brief run as champion when he was with the Corporate Ministry, which wasn't so great). Besides that, he's never made it his personal quest to bury all talented competition...the competition he's buried in his career has traditionally been the extraordinarily talentless kind (your Kamalas, your Giant Gonzalezes, your King Kong Bundies, your Underfakers).

Did you see how Triple-H and Randy Orton got almost no crowd reaction on Raw? Randy Orton's mic skills are hideous, and everyone is tired of Triple-H's "unbeatable world champion" persona by now. When Goldberg came out and confronted Evolution, it looked identical to the confrontation between Triple-H and Scott Steiner back in December, and the confrontation between Triple-H and Kevin Nash back in April. He just keeps going through the same routine...we can only hope that Goldberg's ego is big enough to counteract Triple-H's, though that means if Goldberg wins the title we'll have the exact same problem. The only good thing about Triple-H's title run is that he gave Nash a little bit of his own "book-myself-to-the-top" medicine, but that's it.

Kane, on the other hand, I like. I thought unmasking him would be an amazingly bad idea, especially when I saw his makeup after the mask first came off. But it gets better every week. They did a good job of making him look more like a monster than like Isaac Yankem DDS, so I give props for that. And the fact that he only THINKS he's scarred makes sense too...he comes off as pretty unbalanced, which gives MORE justification to his newfound brutality than would just being ugly. True, there's a continuity problem or two...he's lost his mask to the Stooges, X-Pac, Randy Orton, and some others that I've forgotten...but other than that I think it's going pretty well. Having him just remove the mask once and then put it back on would be retarded - it would result in absolutely zero change to his character and he'd just go back to being an upper-level midcarder, accomplishing nothing. The best part is, Triple-H just HAD to be the guy to beat him and make him lose the mask, he needs an ego boost now that Stephanie is slowly transforming into Chyna...and, judging by crowd reactions, Kane is now Raw's top heel, beating out Triple-H for the spot. Oh how sweet it is. Kane was great when he was an unstoppable monster, and I think unmasking him is really the only way they could have provided a credible reason for his turning back into one.

The idea of having Goldberg spear Randy Orton when he goes to get his shirt is...um...special...but I agree that the segment on Raw was pretty lame (interesting note: during the ensuing commercial break, Goldberg went to jump up on the turnbuckle and play to the crowd, then tripped and fell down. The entire crowd started laughing and he flipped a few of them off before realizing he's a face and he can't do that). Here's the problem: In order for an opponent to be a credible challenger to The Immortal Triple-H, there apparently has to be an ENORMOUS amount of buildup for this opponent. As I said, we saw it with Scott Steiner and we saw it with Kevin Nash. Triple-H's immortality is threatened if he loses to someone too easily, so that means the match must have a ridiculous amount of buildup. Result? The angle becomes very very dull. Triple-H vs. Goldberg at SummerSlam will probably be just as disappointing as his matches with Steiner and Nash, with the only perk being that this time he might actually lose. And isn't Evolution already hanging around girls? Isn't that part of their gimmick? I could've sworn.

I have no problem with Gail Kim. Okay, she isn't really very interesting, and the spot she #####ed up on Raw was jaw-dropping, but aside from that she can work a decent match, and - let's face it - the women's division in the WWE is some boring-ass ##### these days. Plus it's been awhile since the WWE had a female face who can work a decent match...all the good ones are heels (Victoria, Jazz, Molly Holly) while the face side is mostly just eye candy with more silicone than talent (Trish, Ivory, Jacqueline).

To conclude, I still find SmackDown the more interesting show, but the more airtime they give to the Vince/Steph/Sable/Zach Gowen angle, the less I like it (not that I mind Zach, I'd just like him more if they'd let him wrestle a little more often), and the more of this Kane angle I see the more interesting I find Raw. If Goldberg beats Triple-H at SummerSlam and then Kane beats Goldberg for the title, that would rock so much...but it's probably just a pipe dream.
 

tony101882

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RE: NWA-TNA

Not that anyone really cares, but I thought this was pretty cool. If anyone is familiar with NWA-TNA they may have noticed a little 130 pound kid by the name of Matt Sydal a few weeks ago on the PPV. I have fortunately had the honor of wrestling with him a few years ago. He is the nicest guy you could meet and he can do some pretty amazing stuff in the air. Just letting you know that he's definately one to keep your eye on.
 

Tact

Simply Tactilizing
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(De)Evolution.....

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-03 AT 02:55 AM (EST)]I agree with Garth, in that I think Triple H is horrid, the Kane angle is cool, and Gail Kim is alright.

However, I think something should be pointed out about Undertaker. He has not done any burying the likes of Triple H, but he's had his fair share of victories. In fact....when was the last time he was cleanly pinned? It's been a while, I can tell you. And even if it weren't, looking at the past year or two, Undertaker has HARDLY ever been pinned. In addition, looking at the way he successfully pinned all the FBI in consecutive weeks, all singles matches....I'd have to question whether that was wise. It certainly did nothing for the FBI, and that's the last thing they needed BEFORE they mixed it up with Undertaker.

Triple H....well, I think he just needs to lose. A lot. Being unbeatable is great for your ego, but it kills ratings and it hurts a company. Pair that with his injury history, and the "Immortal" Triple H doesn't wrestle much anymore. In fact, he just isn't on television that much anymore! And that aside, if Goldberg doesn't beat Triple H for the title, it'll be adios Goldberg, cuz I doubt he'll stick around for the same fate as the rest of the babyfaces on Raw. (btw, I heard that bit about Goldberg tripping on the ropes, etc. Good stuff...heheh..) And with Triple H and Steph tying the knot in October, I think it is, Triple H will probably be taking a vacation anyway.

Kane's going well. I didn't know what would come of the unmasking, but I must say they've restored at least part of his former "monster" heat. I'd say Jericho was the top heel before, despite his being in the midcard. But Kane's definitely top heel currently. I think they could have had him unmask once and then put it back on, but it likely wouldn't have gotten rave feedback and as solid a push, as Garth said. Also, I think playing the psychological card with him is the best route, so good for the creative team. Unfortunately, that was after they had made everyone looking away from him and Jim Ross saying how ugly and deformed his face looked. BUT. there is a way to play off that, too....Kane's just so UGLY that they think his face is worth turning their heads away from...scars or not! Either way, Kane is being handled delicately and well. The biggest gripe I have is that he's going after authority figures (*COUGH*austin3:16*COUGH*), and that could get him a face reaction. I think he should just go and beat down other wrestlers. Forget the wrestler-management bit...it's overdone anyway.

Here's what I see as being the smartest path for the World Heavyweight Title, Kane, Goldberg, and others in a 10 Step/One Year plan from SummerSlam 2003 to SummerSlam 2004:

1) Crips holds the belt until SummerSlam, where he will drop it to Goldberg. Have Nash turn heel somewhere on this card. He and Michaels should be getting in on the tag scene ASAP (July), and perhaps win the titles off La Resistance. However, at SummerSlam have Nash turn on Michaels and let them feud for a month.

2) September: Goldberg and Cripple H go at it for another month, leading to a Street Fight at the Raw-only PPV for the month. I know, another Street Fight. I'd be perfectly excepting of any No DQ match, and that was just the first that came to mind. As long as it's no DQ, though, it suits the bill. Evolution should show up to back Crips, but Goldberg shows his dominance by beating the 2:1 odds (since Flair and Cripple H really equal 1, and then Orton adds another 1) and retaining the title. As a sendoff for the wedding, Goldberg can injure Cripple H, which would explain why he'd be out in October. And, hell! Have November off too, Crips! Meanwhile...Nash and Michaels should have a match, with Nash going over.

3) October: Nash and Goldberg. This should be built up for the two months leading up to Survivor Series. Come on, I know it's Nash again getting in on the World Title scene, and that's EXACTLY why I'm selecting him for this two-month feud. He and Goldberg have that tazer incident that broke Goldberg's streak and lost him the title to Nash, and I think that can be juiced up and milked pretty easily. Add in the fact that Goldberg giving Nash a Jackhammer, or Nash Jacknifing Goldberg are two pretty cool sights, and you have a decent attraction. I'm sure the mic spots won't be all that wonderful, but maybe Jericho can somehow spice things up by having them on the Highlight Reel, and they can do some other stuff that involves minimal talking on their part. In any case, it's not like Crips needed mic skills to stay at the top. Kane should also take this month to get into a feud with Booker T, or whoever the Intercontinental Champion is. Lame sounding? Yeah, but stay tuned for a bit.

4) November: Survivor Series, and a month away from the month that Nash ended Goldberg's streak in. Kind of useful, and I'm sure they could come up with an interesting gimmick to aid the match, if need be. And it would probably need to be done. But no matter, as Goldberg should win and retain the title. Kane should defeat Booker T (hopefully he won't have lost the belt to someone before this feud would have started) and take the Intercontinental Title. Placing him back in the midcard? You might think so....

5) December: Another Raw PPV month. Goldberg should be put in a Fatal Four-Way World Heavyweight Title match. Hell, use the Elimination Chamber again if you want...or not. Maybe just have an old-fashioned Fatal Four-Way, since I've been tossing gimmick matches around excessively. I would have the other title match participants be Chris Jericho, Booker T (he's a Main Eventer, just do it!, and the dreaded returning Cripple H. Just for kicks, I'd book Goldberg to pin Crips, but that's just my call. Goldberg would retain once again, though. Kane, meanwhile, should go against The Hurricane and RVD in a Triple Threat match. Hey, they were both his Tag Champion partners, right? It could work....otherwise, I'd stick with RVD/Kane III, as I suspect they're going to count the "match" they had on Monday's Raw, and have a second one at SummerSlam. Kane will retain the Intercontinental Title against whoever, though.

6) January. Royal Rumble. The place to really get Kane moving. He will, of course, win the Rumble and the Number One Contender's spot for the World Heavyweight Title. However, I'd also have Kane pull double duty, retaining the Intercontinental Title in a grueling match. Then have the announcers note there's little chance that even Kane would have enough left to win the Rumble, and thank God for that because what the hell would it be like to have Kane walk into WrestleMania with a shot at the Heavyweight Title? (Yeah, I know that's usually been a dead giveaway that someone's gonna win the Rumble, but hey, in this case does it matter? And the fact he'd win the IC Title match would send some speculation that he'd not win the Rumble too, I think....) Hype things up during the month by having Kane enter the Royal Rumble NOT because he cares about the Heavyweight belt, so much as because he wants to "show the world" who the real monster is. Everyone praises Goldberg, but that's just "another way for them to make fun of me!" (that line Kane's using now sounds kind of weak, though...) So Kane will wipe the mat, floor, and any other place he goes with his opponents throughout the Rumble. This shouldn't be confined to the ring and ringside area, either. Kane should go on a rampage, collecting people as he goes from backstage, taking them out of the arena, and eventually depositing them over the top rope to eliminate them. Someone could potentially slip through a loophole, and not be offically eliminated, but rather incapacitated away from the ring by Kane, and taken to a hospital. It isn't necessary, though, because February is a Smackdown! PPV. I wouldn't do it, but it could be done is all I'm saying. Anyway, as for Goldberg, he can go up against ohhh I dunno....how about Shawn Michaels or a heel Scott Steiner..? Steiner works best, in my view, as a heel, by far. So I would have turned him heel long ago, and reestablish him at the upper midcard level, then elevate him so he can face up to Goldberg at the Rumble. Make it a brawl, since Steiner's limited these days, to allow for rest breaks. Maybe a no countout, no DQ Falls Count Anywhere match (I know, I know, the stipulations! I can't help it! AHHH!!), but submissions also counting so Steiner can still use the Recliner. He's using the Downward Spiral/STO now, to finish people off, though...no wonder he's a midcarder! Who knows if he'd use the Steiner Recliner, though. But Goldberg will finish him this match, and retain the strap once again. Now if Goldberg were to go against Michaels, I'd like to see a Ladder Match, to stack the deck against Goldberg, since Michaels clearly has an edge in a Ladder Match against him. But Goldberg can win anyway, then maybe some staredown between Goldberg and Kane after the Royal Rumble itself, to close the show.

7) February: Get the build up going for the Golberg vs. Kane WrestleMania Raw Main Event! This seems like a no-brainer to me, for a truly epic WrestleMania Main Event match: one real monster against another. With the correct scripting and hyping, it could be as big a moneymaker as any match...not that I expect it to happen. But I'd juice this one up as much as I could, and just wait for the explosion in March. And yes, I know full well that Kane still has the Intercontinental Title in his posession....

8) March: Kane takes the Intercontinental Title into WrestleMania against Goldberg, but the IC Title is just for show in this match because there's no way in hell I'm unifying the belts. That was just a dumb move by WWE in the first place. Anyway, this should be a disgusting match...weapons, blood, little order, much of both guys beating the crap out of each other, and no restraints except to make a pinfall or get a submission. If it weren't horridly abused and in desperate need of pulling a years-long disappearing act to recover, I'd say you could make this match a Hell in a Cell match. But that should not be, with the overuse and abuse that gimmick has taken since WrestleMania XV (1999: Undertaker vs. Bossman... ::wretch:: ). And in the end, it shall be KANE taking the World Heavyweight Title, via pinfall over Goldberg. For a nice touch finish, I'd have Kane give Goldberg one Choke Slam...and Goldberg kicks out. A Tombstone Piledriver...but Goldberg kicks out. Goldberg with a Spear from nowhere...but Kane kicks out. Jackhammer doesn't get off the ground as Kane stops it, then gives a third Choke Slam to Goldberg, followed up with a second Tombstone Piledriver for the three count. I think that'd do no harm to Goldberg, and strap Kane with BOTH belts. Can you finish off a mega-push any better than having all the singles belts of a show?

9) The problem with monster pushes for monsters, if one hasn't arisen prior to this point, is sure to come about here. Where to go with Kane now? I wouldn't feud him with Goldberg for another month, because that would either saddle Goldberg with two straight losses to Kane, or kill Kane's push with a loss to Goldberg. One month title reigns are no good for monsters and their pushes, after all. In addition, April - August is going to be interesting, because it's all brand-only PPV months. Backlash and Judgment Day this year were joint PPVs, but it won't be like that next year. So I'd have Kane continue tearing through anyone he faces....keywords, anyone he faces. Since he's got the Heavyweight belt, what the hell should he care about the IC TItle? Have Kane drop it, cold turkey, due to the seldom used, but useful, mandatory defense rule. Kane just plain and simple tells management to stuff it, and that he's not defending the IC Title anymore. Of course, he'll be stripped of the belt and that'll be easy to turn into more fuel for his rage. Have him take it out on....ohhh, Cripple H! Or have Mick Foley come in and challenge Kane. He's supposed to have a match at WrestleMania XX anyway, from what I'm hearing, so he should go on to win that (against Cripple H....seriously, it'd make perfect sense! The guy deserves to be put over Crips, after two straight singles jobs, a WrestleMania XVI (2000) loss, and a retirement orchestrated by Crips). Then have Mick and Kane, who have history, tear into each other. The best way to keep the monster push going, is to put him against a guy that is known for being a pain absorbant, and well...it's Mick Foley, you know the drill. Kane would win this match, if it occurred. He'd take the belt into SummerSlam. After WrestleMania, I might even saddle him with Bischoff as a "manager/advisor/PR man," to add an antagonist to further harness Kane's rage, and direct it.

10) August: One year. Kane would rock so much, at this point, and be so much of a monster, that there's only one more thing to do. To start off, during the month, Kane will resume his feud with Rob Van Dam. This will lead into SummerSlam, where they'll have a match that sees the old DOUBLE TURN! Ohhh YEAH! You got Kane becoming uncontrollable for Bischoff, and then a week (earliest) or at SummerSlam (latest), Kane turns on Bischoff, putting some pop into his crowd response perhaps, but not enough to effect the match. Then during the match, Bischoff (or Bill Alfonso, if it could be swung) comes in and helps RVD turn heel, as he goes on to beat Kane for the World Heavyweight Title. Kane's pissed, of course, and his post-match beating of RVD and whatever other party involved gets him an automatic babyface turn.

Now, the babyface turn doesn't have to be a full-fledged turn for Kane. It can be more of a neutral-face turn, with Kane still expressing his rage, but the fans just eating it up and such, as they do with Lesnar. Except with Kane, it just works so much better. But for those who don't like the babyface turn, I give you....

Alternate 10.1) Kane and RVD still feud, and RVD still wins, but it's a clean win. As a result, Bischoff loses control of Kane, and cuts out, while he still can under his own control, as Kane's tag-along, leaving Kane to continue ruling the realm of heeldom on his own once more.

OR....

Alternate 10.2) Goldberg catches up with Kane once again and they feud for the month. Another grueling, gory, unmerciful but great brawl, monster vs. monster match, with Goldberg getting the win this time, and regaining posession of the World Heavyweight Title.

Ten steps...one year....and a not too shabby booking job, either. Of course, I'd like to hear feedback, cuz maybe I'm just seeing things all wrong. Or maybe I'm seeing it right, or right but with the wrong specifics? Let me know, share in on "the Kane booking that WWE will never find the intelligence to book themselves unless they hire one of us and we accept!"


~Jeff
 

ChrisHorowitz

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RE: WWE Bad Blood or PPV?

It occurs to me that this thread has gotten quite a few replies yet I still haven't butted in and mentioned how much I think the WWF sucks.

Well I think it sucks a lot. NWA:TNA too, all because of Vince Russo.
 

scwhat82

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James 2003

Vote for Steven James for Most Improved Wrestler! When looking at that ballot pick james for if elected i promise to clean the streets of crime, create a better medicare system, make a tax cut for working class families, and last but not least, balance the deficit. So vote James in 2003!

oh wait, wrong speech. nevermind then.
 

scwhat82

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For A Change

ok, just a few takes to say. 1st of all, has anyone noticed that the number of leagues in fw has diminished? when i first stated there were...ah screw it, i never counted but u get my point.

the second thing is a question. i've asked what everybody hates about the wwe, well this question is what is it that u like? angles, characters, whatever. i know i always ask things like this but james had the last card off and i'm bored. hope to hear from ya.

Showtime Steven James
 

ChrisHorowitz

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RE: For A Change

A total lack of RPers mostly, and a total stagnation of FW. Leagues are way too similar now a days.

I'm throwing around some ideas in my head of what I want the IWF II to be, and mostly I want it to be as absurdly different as every single league as possible. FW has become far too serious, it's time to do something that just goes out of its way to be amusing and entertaining.

But there's also a total lack of RPers these days. The RPer pool has decreased by at least half. Half the leagues on this board have the same 3-4 people in the top 10 of their rankings, sometimes with the same characters. Maybe it's just that I've seen most of this stuff for the last 5 years now, but It all just makes me want to throw a giant wrench in how FW operates.
 

jediPREZ

Shadowboss
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RE: For A Change

I don't think FW is suffering in the least. On fwrestling.com, maybe slightly - but that'll only continue as long as we don't look 'outside the box' for talent, ideas, etc.

And I agree for the most part you need something 'different' to bring in RPers today.

The ones that are successful in this community I think are the ones that keep things fresh and new - week to week.

I don't think the pool has decreased, I just think as you said not too many leagues are different these days...as well as the same characters are at the top (not their fault, they're just good).

If anything, I think the pool has gotten larger. This isn't the only community that you should be looking through anymore. Ewplanet.com has thousands of different styled writers and a good portion of them are looking for leagues.

I've always liked the idea of leagues opening in THIS community stating that you have to come in with a brand new character. That at least eliminates some stagnancy you'd be hoping to avoid. Also look for other communities to post join notes in, you never know what diamonds in the rough are out there RPer-wise.
 

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